Sarah Palin – If she were a man would I vote for him? YES! I would!
Barbara,
I realize that you disagree with me, but you’ve asked some very direct questions, and I’m going to answer them. (Your questions and comments are in bold italics.)
I can understand your agreeing with the part about no abortion and maybe the part about evolution, although I can’t believe an intelligent woman like yourself would believe that.
An intelligent woman such as myself, who has studied both the THEORY of evolution and the THEOLOGY of Creationism, can’t possible believe that our world, our bodies, and all that exist here on this planet could be a result of happenstance or accident. There is no way I’m willing to accept the idea that I evolved from a monkey. There are still monkeys in existence, and if that were the case, there would be no monkeys – or they would still be evolving. It would continue to be a progressive state of evolution. I see no indication of that anywhere. And I’m fairly well traveled and extremely well educated in matters of science. My bet is NOT on Evolution.
There is enough evidence of the Biblical Theology of Creationism for me to believe it happened, just exactly as the Bible says it did. I’ve witnessed too many miracles not to believe 100% in God, in His Son Jesus, and in ALL that came before and after. The main problem I see for those who choose not to believe is their limited understanding of basic physics. Essential Elements do not transform naturally into other elements. Nor do they evolve into a new element.
You can say I’m not intelligent for believing in creationism if you choose. But I’d like you to think about something…
If you’re right and I’ve spent my life believing, the end comes and I’m simply dead. There’s no life after, and no cause to be concerned about eternity, it doesn’t exist.
If I’m right, the end comes and you’ve spent your whole life not believing, you’ve lost it all. Eternity is a long time to remember why you chose not to believe.
But think about what drilling for oil will do to those wilderness areas. Think about how it will affect the polar bears and the other wildlife that depend on that wilderness. Yes, it will bring some oil, but is it worth it to destroy the environment for the little amount of oil it will bring? Sarah Palin wants to drill no matter what.
My family homesteaded in Southeastern Colorado. The homesteads are surrounded by oil wells. We have one about fifty yards from the front door of the homestead. There are deer, black bear, beaver, brown bear, mountain lions, bob cats, and all other kinds of wild life surrounding the homestead. On any given night, you’ll hear one or two mountain lion or bob cats screaming and coyotes of all kinds. They pay very little attention to the equipment. There’s almost no polution from the wells. The rigs don’t tear up the area, and the roughnecks kill more deer for food while they’re on the homestead than ever get killed any other way. In fact, the deer are so thick on the homestead that we had extra hunter cards for the area, to thin them out to prevent desease this year.
I haven’t been to Alaska, but a good friend of mine lives near one of the few Alaskan Oil Rigs that’s been operable over the past many years. It’s not unusual to see a polar bear, or other wildlife near the rig, or for her to send photos of animals nearby. Their home doesn’t appear to be any more encrouched upon than the suburbs of Denver, where people have built homes in the pines. Mountain lions, deer, and bear have been seen in the yards there, on the porches, and another location nearby, a brown bear found his most private residence at the top of a telephone pole where he enjoyed the view.
Wild animals seem to adapt well.
In the badlands of New Mexico, the timber wolf has recently been reintroduced to the wild. People there have to protect their children, their horses, their pets, from the timberwolves.Timber wolves are protected species, and those who kill them face a similar sentence to killing a person. Timber wolves are animals. In this case, they are raised by humans, so they have NO FEAR. Humans give them food, therefore, if the wolves get hungry and a human is around… he looks like food. Any age.
You and I have totally different views as to the VALUE of animals above human life. I don’t condone destruction of animals, nor do I believe that they cannot adapt to humans being around, or to the normal living issues of having humans in the area. Drilling for oil is another way Humans are AROUND.
Also she has told some incredible lies and these can be proved.
I’m 48 years old. I remember Teddy Kennedy’s history. I studied John F. Kennedy in school. I grew up with the Jimmy Carter Administration. Bill Clinton wouldn’t know the truth if it wore a blue dress and bit him on the ‘oh yeah’. We’re talking politics here. I’ve listened to Obama, and I haven’t heard much come out of his mouth that wasn’t rhetoric, political gibberish, or down right untruths. In all his long years of experience in office, he wrote a MEMO. He’s running his campaign based on MLK’s dream. MLK’s dream was for FREEDOM, it had nothing specific to do with a black man being in the white house. I certainly am NOT voting for McCain because he’s white. I’m not voting for Palin because she’s a woman. And I will not vote for Obama simply because he’s a black man. I don’t care what color, gender, or race any of them come from, they have to have merit for the job, before I’m interested in voting for them.
Personally, I believe McCain is a strong, solid,decisive man with incredibly good instincts when it comes to leadership, power, and women. His wife is a strong, self secure and independent woman whom he supports and encourages to pursue her own dreams and use her skills and capabilities to do so. I believe he selected Sarah Palin for the same reasons. These beliefs are based on his actions and the actions of both women, as per their historic behaviors. He shows his belief in equality by the way he treats these women and others in his circle. Leadership and equality can walk hand in hand when both are strong enough to stand alone, and flexible enough to stand where necessary to lead.
Do you know about her record as governor?
I’ve actually heard quite a lot about her record as Governor. I know the people in Alaska LOVE her. They think she did a wonderful job as governor. Many of them have tauted her credits, and stated what a great job she’s done. Several of my friends from Alaska have sent very encouraging messages about her skills and abilities. As citizens of her state, I actually believe they have some knowledge and understanding of what she’s been up to, there. (I know what’s going on with our Governor, have talked to him, and I disagree with much of what he’s done. So, considering my feelings about him. I will definitely take an Alaskan Citizen’s word on Palin.)
Do you know that in her town they actually charged people who were raped for the rape kit when she was mayor?
I paid for the rape kit, the hospital visit, and the ambulance trip when I was raped. This doesn’t surprise me. I don’t know that I agree with it, but I’m not sure that I disagree with it either. I even paid for the six months of therapy I received after the fact. There’s more to that story, but it’s not necessarily for public ears. There are many things I believe we as citizens should be paying for that my fellow Americans (on the other side of the political fence) believe should be provided. There AIN’T NO Free Lunch. The money comes from somewhere.
I absolutely do NOT believe that the Government should be determining my health care solutions. It should NOT be a government decision. I do not want socialized medicine. I do NOT believe children should be given Autism by being forced to take immunization shots. Nor do I believe we should force people to take medical treatments they choose not to take. I also do not believe that Government should tell me what Dr. I can see.
Do you know that they are now trying to stop the investigation into her firing of the police chief?
This is rather popular media fodder for filler space. Our community has turned over four police chief’s in the past three years. I didn’t necessarily agree with all the turn overs, but quite honestly, it’s a public position, and sometimes the situation arises that a chief needs to be replaced. Whether it’s a choice made, that might not have been necessary or not, has less to do with the decision than the fact that a decision needed to be made, it was her responsibility, and she made it. A clear cut characteristic of a leader is the ability to make a decision, stand by it, and take the heat – EVEN if it turns out to be wrong.
I fired my ex husband from a family business – before he was my ex. Sometimes decisions aren’t popular. Not one person on the planet today has lived life without error. We make choices as leaders and we live with the consequences.
The Democrats are wanting CHANGE. Sarah CHANGED Police Chiefs. That proves an ability to make a change. She’s proving herself capable of leadership in my estimation.
Is this someone who you would support?
Most definitely. I will support her and I will encourage her. I will also be praying for her, in the same ways I’ve prayed for every political leader in our past, during my lifetime.
You have to look beyond her stance as a woman and think about what she has done.
I see Sarah Palin as far more than a woman. I see her as a strong, independent leader with charisma, charm, intelligence, and the capabilities of standing on her own feet, carrying the load she’s given to bear, and the power to stand for what she believes is right. None of that has anything to do with her gender. She’s not any of those things because she’s a woman. She simply is those things, because that’s who Sarah Palin is.
I’m not basing my choice on Sarah’s stance as a woman, but rather on the standards she’s chosen to support and the leadership position she’s taken on many issues. There will never be a candidate I wholly agree with, but she comes mighty close.
I too support the NRA. I support no abortion. I support tax CUTS, and financial solvency. I’m convinced that we’ll be changing our habits over the next twenty years or so… Not so much due to Global Warming (although that too is predicted in the last chapter of the Bible – it says the earth will be destroyed by fire), as by the fact that we as a people are changing. If we consider the challenges before us, and look at each candidate independently from the party with whom they’re affiliated, we’ll find stronger leaders who can provide higher-impact results and better residual effect.
I’ve never been a line item voter. I’m still not. But there are some candidates that just simply offer more than others. Sarah Palin offers what I’m looking for in a candidate, as does McCain.
She is going to be one step away from the presidency and she is ignorant of many things that she needs to know.
There’s a difference between ignorance and stupidity. A person ignorant of facts necessary to accomplish their goals will find a way to learn and gain knowledge. That person will use that knowledge to make the changes and effective differences necessary to meet their own goals, and to serve where needed.
A person who is stupid will simply tell others around them that they don’t know what they’re talking about, and explain how they should be allowed to make the decisions for their constituents, without regard to the actual facts of the situation. It has been my experience in life that when one chooses to tell others how they must behave, change the rules, or write rules limiting the rights of others, the person in charge is overstepping the boundaries of good common sense and sound knowledge. Those who take away my right to choose and imply they are doing so to protect me have not taken the time to understand the purpose of freedom of choice.
Yes, she conducts herself very well and she gets her points across.
Yes. She shows great promise as a leader.
One of my all-time favorite Presidents is Ronald Reagan. HE told the people of IRAN that he would FREE our hostages. They FREED them moments before he took office. THEY recognized his ability to do what he said he would do. WHY? Because he knew how to speak to them in language they understood, with confidence they recognized as the ability to carry out his word.
He also told Mr. Gorbachev to TEAR DOWN THE WALL. And the wall came tumbling down.
There is no doubt that Sarah is a skilled speaker and capable of stating her opinions in ways that will be heard. She’s obviously got great leader instincts and abilities.
But please fact check and don’t go by what is said in the campaign.
Always do! Every voter should do this. There should be no reason ever to vote for a person you’re unsure of, or unhappy with, because there are so many options.
The country’s future is at stake!
This country’s future, and I believe the WORLD is at stake. That’s why I’m voting for McCain/Palin in November. I believe they are the best team for the job. They are capable leaders and will take this country where it needs to go. I’ve seen them in action, I can tell they both love this country, appreciate our traditions, and will stand up for what they believe. I believe they both have similar beliefs to mine and that they are the best for the position, both as independent leaders and as a team.
I believe Sarah would carry on, as the leader in the position of president, if need be, with the power and capabilities of a strong, sure leader serving this nation. I’m also quite certain that both Sarah Palin and John McCain are aware that the position of President/Vice President are positions of SERVICE, DEDICATION and COMMITMENT. I’ve seen no indication from either Obama or Biden that would indicate that either of them have any comprehension whatsoever of what it means to be dedicated to the commitment of serving this country. Obama actually refuses to salute the flag on many occasions, which to me is a personal choice to disrespect and desecrate the flag. IF he doesn’t even have the respect to salute the flag, how can you possibly believe he has enough respect to lead the country for which it stands?
Think of her as a man and think would you want someone who did the things she did to be vice president?
I’m not sure what you’re referring to here. Evidently, she’s done something terrible that I’m unaware of, if you think it’s so bad that I wouldn’t want her to be Vice-President as either a man or a woman.
Even if Sarah Palin was a man, my choice would not change. I can say this with confidence, because I don’t believe her choices would be any different if she were a man. She behaves as if she’s quite comfortable with her role as a leader.
If Biden was a woman, I still wouldn’t vote ’her’ garbage person to take out the whitehouse trash. If Obama was a woman, I still wouldn’t trust ‘her’ not to sell this nation down the proverbial drain with every piece of legislature ’she’ passed. If Hillary was a man, I wouldn’t vote for HIM either. One time around for the Clinton’s was ENOUGH.
Honestly, Barbara, I appreciate your concern for my political awareness, but I’m certain that I’ve got as many years of campaigning and political research behind the belt as you do. I don’t take the responsibility of voting lightly. I believe it is my civic duty to be informed and make decisions based on my best choice, prayerful research and God given wisdom.
I’ll be praying that you and the rest of the voters use the same kind of discernment in making your selection on November 4th. Our country’s future and our children are depending on you.
Sincerely,
Jan Verhoeff
26 Responses to “Sarah Palin – If she were a man would I vote for him? YES! I would!”
September 13th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
(reponse via email)
Jan,
I appreciate your refuting my comments and I realize that although we both read the same material and saw the same things we both got different ideas from it. This is very interesting to a writer since you can now see why people have so many different readings of what you have written.
I would ask that you dig a little deeper into the life of Sarah Palin before you accept her wholeheartedly. There are criminal proceedings against her. I don’t care if that is the accepted thing in your area, but as far as I am concerned this is something that would make me rethink her role as a vice president. Did you know that she demanded loyalty tests to her when she got into office?
But whatever she is is not important. I would just like you to research her a little more. That is all. You should know exactly who you are voting for.
Barbara
September 13th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
Barbara,
Quite often the difference in what you hear, depends upon where you stand. I do NOT want socialized medicine. I do NOT want a dictator in the white house, and I do not want a man in the white house who has no respect for the people or the country he desires to rule. The President should be a servant in his country, not a dominator. I want a leader who believes in EQUALITY. Not once during the time he’s been running has Obama offered any indication that he believes in equality. He believes in racial dominance, he believes men are domant over women, and he fully intends, by his own words, to “get back at” white Americans for years of slavery.
One of the biggest issues I’ve noticed is Feminism. If women wanted the laws of feminism to pass, they would have passed. There are more women than men. The issues portrayed by feminism, by many of the special rights groups, have brought this country to it’s knees. And it’s time to STOP special rights. You don’t deserve more or better rights than I do and visa versa. Equality is a big issue in this country and you can’t be equal if you’re SPECIAL.
I can look at the whole picture of Sarah Palin, and I could even see the criminal proceedings against her as wrong if they were merited. The reality here is that she’s had charges brought against her. They haven’t proven her guilty. She may not be proven guilty of the charges brought.
White Water was a big issue in the Clinton Campaign and those were Criminal Charges as well. Why was that less important than Sarah Palin’s Criminal Charges? Bill Clinton disgraced women, the American Public, and an American Public Office, not only with his behavior – but with his lies on the witness stand.
I know who I’m voting for, she’s a Powerful Woman and a force to be reckoned with in Political Power. That says something about who she is and what she’ll accomplish in the white house – even as a VICE – President. More importantly, I’m voting for McCain. A man I see as a man of stature and position who stands with TWO women of strength and integrity, who will make a difference in these United States.
Jan
September 13th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
(comment by email)
Jan,
Very good comments from both of you, but Barbara is hung up on the Democratic Talking Points who have a completely different agenda than we [Republican/Conservatives] do. Too many of U.S. citizens buy into “destroying the environment”, “killing off the animals”, “taking away their habitat” and all the other buzz words that makes them feel good, but is not worth a drop of spit. I would suggest Barbara and in fact all citizens buy Reader’s Digest “Scenic Wilderness of the World”, that sells in Sam’s Club for $19.99 Item# 266480. Set consists of 6 DVD, in boxed set and show the animals, terrain, rivers, all over the world. Humans live in the 40 degrees north of the equator, and 40 degrees south of the equator around this planet, with only small percentage in the far north, or the far south.
And as you pointed out, we have drilled, mined, prospected, on this planet for centuries and Mother Nature still does more damage to it, than Mankind does. No matter how much Al Gore rants and raves, but note he is rolling in the dough with this. The Kennedy’s take in more money from oil and gas than Cheney or Bush (who have not been in the energy business for years other than trying to make more available for U.S. citizens.
When we cut to the chase, the question is: Do we want Obama and Biden leading this country. Biden has been there for 28 years and he will be more of the same. Obama is a direct product of Daley-Stroger-Chicago Patronage Systems and we do not want to add that to the fraud, theft, and present patronage system in Washington . Jan, I fully expect to see Biden withdraw soon, and Hilary put on ticket for VP. Biden made statement recently that she was qualified to be President, and better candidate for VP then he is. He only pulled 1% of Democrat votes in Iowa where only Democrats were voting in caucas. That was when he withdrew from there. And since that remark in last week, I have not seen him on media.
Obama made a stupid comment about “lipstick on a pig” after Sarah made that a trademark in her acceptance speech. He is Harvard trained lawyer, and was taught that “words” have meaning, and must be carefully planned. So he knew what he was saying, his audience knew what he said, and now with media on his case, he is like a little kid with hand caught in cookie jar. “I was misunderstood”. Horse hockies. He thought the was being cute, and has to live with it now. “Just like Read my Lips, No new Taxes”, and candidates who cried over being misunderstood. Terrible sign of weakness. And it he cannot stand up to media and apologize, just how would he or Biden get leaders of unfriendly countries to cooperate.
But you have a good discussion, and Barbara seems sincere, but is stuck on Leftist talking points. She should really study those for herself. I have also challenged some to tell me where all the environment has been destroyed in lower 48 states with all of our drilling, mining, and exploring. We changed nature, but animals were comfortable with it, during that work. Growing up, I hunted rabbits, foxes, owls, hawks, and other animals around the oil wells, gas wells, or the coal mine on every farm where each farm family dug their own coal for use.
Frank
September 13th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
(posted from email)
JAN
I THANK YOU FOR POSTING THE NOTES AND RESPONSE TO THE PALIN ISSUE. IT CERTAINLY TELLS IT AS IT IS AND I HAVE ALREADY SENT IT ON TO OTHERS.
THANK YOU FOR HAVING SUCH GOOD SENSE!
PRAYING THAT YOU ARE HAVING A GOOD DAY, AND WILL HAVE A GREAT EVENING, AND A WONDERFUL TOMORROW!
PRAYERS AND HUGS, DOLLY
September 13th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Thank you Frank and Dolly.
It’s shocking how indifferent the leftists are to what is truly going on. They’re so stuck in their tree hugging heaven of what’s good for greenies and environmental protocol that they are missing out on the fact that Hurricanes are a dominating factor on the planet. Disaster is striking on average once every two months – in major proportions. Natural disasters are not being caused by the Greenhouse Effect. They are acts of nature started many centuries ago when Christ said “It is finished.”
I’ve read the last chapter of the book. Whether we believe in Creationism or not, doesn’t much matter, the reality is that we’ve been warned. We continue being warned and our society has every opportunity to make a difference. I don’t believe it will save a dying planet, but we could make a difference in other ways. We could stand for what’s right, just and fair.
But instead, we’re allowing ourselves to be dominated and controlled by those who believe the ultimate power is in financial gain. There’s SO MUCH MORE.
Thanks for the support and encouragement.
Jan
September 13th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
Amen! Jan, you did yourself (& Sarah) proud. I agree. Let me add that I see no evidence that Obama has any grasp of what it takes to be President of the United States of America.
Love,
m
September 14th, 2008 at 1:23 am
[...] swine with a vote for the other party, a vote for the Lipstick Girl means a strapping big vote for Change to MAKE A DIFFERENCE America. You can count on this hometown girl, nominated as Vice-President to step outside the [...]
September 14th, 2008 at 1:41 am
[...] on to Change America. I agree with that. I believe we need a change. But we need change that will MAKE A DIFFERENCE. I speak for all those ratty ole union boys when I say this, “That Sarah Palin has it [...]
September 14th, 2008 at 9:39 am
(comment from email)
Jan,
Thank you for your comments, because I now know that you have gotten the wrong idea about Obama. I don’t know from where you got those ideas, but I would suggest that you study his record a little more. We obviously come from different sides of the political spectrum. I am on Ghandi’s side and you are on the other side. It’s okay and it doesn’t matter to me as long as we NEVER HAVE TO DISCUSS POLITICS AGAIN!!!!!
Let’s keep to stories and words and that will be great.
Barbara
September 14th, 2008 at 9:41 am
Barbara,
I’m not continuing this discussion, but I do want to point something out. This is at least the third time this has happened between you and I. You bring up or send a message about politics, then when I’ve responded with my own ideas, you want to never discuss politics with me again. I’m not angry, nor am I upset with you for bringing it up. I have an opinion that is just as informed and well studied as yours. My opinion is formed from a different perspective, but that’s why there are two sides on every coin.
The fact is, no matter how thin the paper, there are ALWAYS two sides. We don’t have to discuss politics ever again, and I can happily live on the same continent with you – without being angry or upset by your views. I know we disagree with each other on political matters, and I still consider you a friend. I firmly believe that we each have a right to our opinions. I don’t mind hearing yours. I don’t mind sharing mine.
I’ve learned over the years that my friends who are democrat don’t have the same ability to discuss politics from different perspective without getting angry. They wish to spout their views at me, but don’t want to hear mine in return. That’s fine. I don’t have a problem with hearing your views. I do however have a problem with being told that I don’t have a right to my views.
Back to writing!!! That’s what we do best!
Blessings,
Jan
September 14th, 2008 at 10:05 am
ONE MINUTE EACH NIGHT….
2 Chronicles 7:14
If my people, which are called by my name shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
During WWII, there was an advisor to Churchill who organized a group of people who dropped what they were doing every night at a prescribed hour for one minute to collectively pray for the safety of England, its people and peace. This had an amazing effect as bombing stopped.
There is now a group of people organizing the same thing here in America. The United States of America and our citizens need prayer more than ever !!!
If you would like to participate: each evening at 9:00 PM Eastern Time (8:00 PM Central, 7:00 PM Mountain, 6:00 PM Pacific), stop whatever you are doing and spend one minute praying for the safety of the United States, our troops, our citizens, for peace in the world, the upcoming election, that the Bible will remain the basis for the laws governing our land and that Christianity will grow in the U.S.
If you know anyone who would like to participate, please pass this along.
Someone said if people really understood the full extent of the power we have available through prayer, we might be speechless. Our prayers are the most powerful asset we have.
Thank You. Please pass this on to anyone who you think will want to join us.
God Bless You!!!
September 14th, 2008 at 10:08 am
(Comment from Email)
Jan:
Great response!! Great points!!
God is raising up His daughters. Sarah is just one of millions whom He is raising up. And it’s not just in the political scene-it’s on every level. Might as well get used to it.
Blessings,
Sharon
September 14th, 2008 at 10:10 am
(Comment from Email)
Jan,
You did great in your answer to Barbara. Thank you for sending this link to me too. I am very proud of you.
Mom
September 14th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Hi Jan,
What I’ve always admired about you is still outfront in your conversations-that being that you are willing to share your views and listen to others without trying to convince everyone to fall in line and follow your lead.
There is nothing godly about the game of politics.
It’s dirty and dishonest, a game played to win, no matter the cost.
There is so much more, as you said….this is where we need to focus. As individuals if we all take stock, look into the recesses of our soul, there we will find the answers.
We all come equipped to make the right choices, we just have to be willing.
My love and respect as always~
Bea Kunz
September 15th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
(posted from email)
Jan,
I’m sorry you feel that way. People who are Democrats (not Democrat) try to see things on both sides of the political spectrum. I happen to know that several things that the McCain/Palin campaign has said are out and out lies. They can be proven. However, this is not the point. You have your own views and you are welcome to believe whatever you want to believe. However, any informed person would have to agree that you can refute many of the things that are being said by both of these candidates.
I don’t believe everything that I hear from a candidate’s mouth and that is why I have researched many of the things that I believe. But I don’t want to continue this discussion because you and I will never agree. I do see both sides and know that there are two sides. However, I can see that the side that is telling the truth is the one that I want to support.
I am not angry with you and of course we should definitely continue speaking about what we both can agree upon, which is writing. It’s not that we should never discuss politics, but every time we do you say that you believe something different from me. I am not showing you beliefs. What I am trying to do is bring you facts. These can be proved by actual news articles and by witnesses to the facts.
I usually form my own opinion on facts too. See you on the board.
I value your opinion on my writing and I respect your ability to write. All I’m asking is that you please take a look at the facts and put your beliefs aside when you are electing a president. It’s not like you are putting these people as your pastors or even your mayor. This a job that needs someone who can tell the truth. I’m sorry to say I don’t believe that either of these people can do that. That is why I think you should read more of the actual facts before you vote. Keep your beliefs and feelings, but please look at the facts.
Barbara
September 15th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
(posted from email)
Wow, this person knows her stuff…….I fell in love with her [Palin] the minute she spoke and even more when I saw her little girl lick her hand and wipe down her baby brothers hair. We do need a strong leader now more than ever…I do not worry about the economy, as long as I can hunt and fish, I will grow a garden and survive by God’s will, but the affairs of the world right now are critical and I DO want a leader that is willing to walk the talk and that is McCain…My son, Curt, has given 21 years to this country and he knows the sacrifices like McCain, he’d die for this country and for all in it, but I doubt Obama would. Kay
September 15th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
(posted from email)
Thank you for sharing this, Marylou. It’ is QUITE insightful and interesting. I agree with most or all of it and will share it with others in my address book. Please pass along to your friend Jan that I’ve really enjoyed reading her insightful responses to someone who, obviously, isn’t up to snuff.
Always, in Christ,
April
September 15th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
(posted from email)
Thanks, sis. a very worthwhile and intelligent bunch of answers.
well done.
Lin Hummel
September 15th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
Barbara,
I fully agree with you that anyone with any sense would be able to use simple facts to determine who they’ll vote for in November. Presuming you’re an intelligent woman with a reasonable amount of good sense, well informed and the ability to make logical decisions, here’s some facts you can’t argue with!
How To Save the Government $5 Million. A president’s pension currently is $191,300 per year and ends when they turn age 80. Assuming the next president lives to age 80. Sen. McCain would receive ZERO pension as he would reach 80 at the end of two terms as president. Sen. Obama would be retired for 26 years after two terms and would receive $4,973,800 in pension. Therefore it would certainly make economic sense to elect McCain in November. How’s that for non-partisan thinking???
No other economic argument makes as much sense as this one, because they just don’t hold up in reality. Arguing that one presidential candidate lies more than the other one isn’t a good argument, anyone with a lick of good common sense knows better – they’re all politicians. Arguing that one has any better moral values with people who demand separation between church and state doesn’t work, without a religious foundation (aka. The Ten Commandments) there are no values. Arguing ethics or personal quality doesn’t work, because there’s always something in their past that isn’t revealed.
Biden was caught plagerizing several years ago, admitted it, and apologized for it.
Obama’s resume is well padded with community activism in association with a liberal aggitation group most known and sited for voter registration fraud in the nation.
Obama has numerous associations with socialistic marxists, beginning with Saul Alenski (not sure of spelling on his name) from Harvard. Innocent association – there’s an oxymoron for you!
Nothing Obama (as a law student) wrote in Harvard is available for citation or reference. Interesting skill he has there, attending law school at Harvard – unpublished.. HUMMM
Obama’s wife’s publications were locked after he began campaigning for office. Hummm (again)
Obama was born outside the USA. His citizenship is suspect at best. Isn’t there a law about that? Yes, I know his mother was from Kansas – but was she STILL a citizen?
These are just starters.
When speaking in FACTS, you need to use FACTS you can count on, from sources that are reputable and verifiable.
Topic closed yet?
September 15th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Bea,
I’ve been so busy posting and emailing, I forgot to check the comments that were posted on my site… LOL
At any rate, I thank you so much for your support and encouragement. I believe my strong point is having the ability to believe strongly, search the facts and understand why I believe, and still have the ability to look at the whole picture to make my decisions.
As always, your posts are welcome and appreciated here.
Jan
September 16th, 2008 at 8:27 am
(posted from email)
Okay, Jan. You have your facts. But I am not talking about the candidates that I support. I knew that Hillary Clinton had lied and that Obama is not “lilly white”.:) But I was referring to facts about Palin and what is now happening with the investigation in Alaska and a few other things about her that I don’t like. But we are not going to talk about anything more. It’s as I thought. You have your facts and I have mine. I knew all that about the candidates and your argument about the pensions is one I have heard before too.
Let’s leave this discussion and go back to writing.
Barbara
September 16th, 2008 at 8:29 am
Barbara,
You said, “I am on Ghandi’s side and you are on the other side. ”
Perhaps you need to study Gandhi further:
It is unwise to be too sure of one’s own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err.
Mahatma Gandhi
One needs to be slow to form convictions, but once formed they must be defended against the heaviest odds.
Mahatma Gandhi
When I dispair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it — always.
Mahatma Gandhi
Gandhi would make his choice based on what he believed was Right and GOOD and Honorable, with an understanding of the facts at hand. Then he would stand on what he believes. Never in all the quotes I’ve seen from Gandhi, has he ever implied a person with a different viewpoint was less intelligent, less informed, or less capable of making their own choices than he. Gandhi isn’t particularly one of my heros, nor is he specifically not someone I would honor. I believe he was a great leader. He also found himself to be at odds with government, with the law, and with people on numerous occasions. That didn’t mean he backed down or failed. It simply meant he believed differently and stood on his own convictions. I would personally call him a success, because he believed in something strongly enough to stand his ground. That’s a honorable position.
Once again, I did not start this discussion, you sent the first email. I’ve simply responded to your comments and your arguments.
Jan
September 16th, 2008 at 9:27 am
This is an interesting discussion.
Oris
September 17th, 2008 at 12:03 am
(posted from email)
Jan,
What I meant by being on Ghandi’s side is that he and I were on the same side of the political spectrum. It doesn’t mean that I believed everything he said. I do agree that Ghandi was a great leader and I would agree with every quote you have there.
I never insinuated that you were not intelligent because you had your own beliefs. I just thought that maybe you didn’t have all the facts to understand why I have made my decision. I think that you are a very intelligent person and I have never in this discussion said anything to the contrary.
Sorry you are so angry, because I didn’t do this to anger you.
Barbara
September 17th, 2008 at 12:04 am
Barbara,
I find it intersting that you think I’m angry. I’m not.
I’ve had a lot of political discussions recently, a few debates (I’m an often requested speaker at local political events, because I have the ability to discuss the issues, without personally attacking or relating to the positions), and often work both parties as a judge, because the people on both sides know they can count on me.
During the fair, I was in an area surrounded by democrat candidates, operating a booth for the Historic Society. One of the democrats had meetings during the week and would leave his booth in tact and asked me to watch over it and hand out his fliers and brochures.
My purpose is to educate people about the candidates, and about voting. We have a responsibility to vote. It’s more than a privilege. No matter what side of the ticket you’re on, it’s a responsibility to maintain freedom. If the majority choose Obama, so be it. He’s not my choice but this is AMERICA where the majority rules, via Democratic Process.
I’m a firm believer in God and I believe everything that happens is God Filtered. I believe that our president is part of that system, whoever s/he is. We have a God given right to freedom of choice and I believe that God allow us to make decisions and to bare the consequences of those decisions. As a citizen of this country, we have the same right/responsibility to make those decisions and bare the consequences.
Jan
September 20th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
Often issues discussed between people who disagree become personal affronts. The problem with this is that when an issue becomes personal, there’s no logic in the discussion.
The feelings explain the lack of logic, but not always the resulting statements.
Knowing the facts doesn’t change a persons values and moral issues. It simply gives them cause for justification and explanation. Personal issues significantly change the ending results of the discussion. No solution can be found when this happens.
But more than anything else, there’s a limitation on comprehension that happens when people become emotionally involved in the process of discussing legal issues. The lack of ability to keep an open mind and look at the purpose behind the issues is more emphatic than the issues themselves, which means that essentially, nobody wins because emotional upheaval disrupts the solution.
Political discussions get heated because people allow their emotions to lead their logic.
Jan
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